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Jeff Osborne on the state of women's MMA and his Nov. 6 women's HOOKnSHOOT event By Joe Hall Jeff Osborne has faith in women's MMA. He was told women couldn't carry their own event, but in April 2002 he hosted the first all-women's MMA card in the U.S. anyway. The DVDs are still selling. Now, Osborne will tell you female fighters have a better shot of attracting new fans than male fighters do. That's right: He says it's the women and not the men who are more capable of catching the eye of a new audience, who are more able to turn first-time viewers of MMA into permanent fans. Just look at the outside interest in his show that's three months away, says Osborne. Playboy, Femme Fatale and MTV have already contacted him regarding his next women's event. You may disagree with his views on women's MMA ... but what if he's right? Is women's MMA really capable of broadening the fan base? And is it ready to push in that direction? Osborne is cultivating the women's product with such plans in mind. His next female-dominated lineup is scheduled for Nov. 6 in Evansville, Indiana, and he's promising it will be the best to-date. FCF caught up with Osborne to get his thoughts on the state of women's MMA and his plans for the upcoming women's HOOKnSHOOT. FCF: When did you first see women fighting in MMA and what was your immediate impression of it? Jeff Osborne: I'd say towards the end of the 90's. They had a skilled girl against a nobody. I was never interested in that, until I saw the Remix, which I believe was 2000. You had some very, very skilled women in that, but again you had some women who didn't belong there. Just straight pro wrestlers or whatever. But I thought if I could take that and combine that with more skilled women, it would be a better product. FCF: When fans first hear about women's MMA, but they haven't seen it, what is their general impression of it? JO: Slap-fight. You can watch some new fans on the HOOKnSHOOT "Revolution" DVD. We asked some of the random fans coming in who had never been to fights before, and they were expecting catfights. They said that on the DVD. ... We had sold 3,000 tickets (for the previous men's show), and then when the women's show rolled around, we only sold about 1,800. Then the fans who didn't come got wind of how good the show was and that the women actually were skilled, and they regretted not going to the show. FCF: There are skilled women out there, but it also seems like you see a lot of mismatches in women's MMA. Maybe the scarcity of women fighters is just magnifying the skill gap, but is it being promoted and matched poorly in some places too? JO: Yeah, I think most people are using it as a sideshow, maybe just thinking they're going to sell a lot of tickets. If it's not a show strictly for women, you're going to run into people pulling out or not finding opponents. There are a lot of bad ones out there, but there are also a lot of good women fighters. FCF: Do women's fights pull people in? Do they sell tickets? JO: I think just out of curiosity people would go see a "chick fight" just to see what it's like. I did a women's bout at an Illinois show, and people were skeptical about that. I said give it a try, and I put two pretty skilled girls in there, Kelly Kobold and Ginelle Marquez, and they were one of the better fights on the show. I think it turned heads there. I don't know, it may work for some people and it may not. FCF: What is the state of women's MMA right now, if you had to say, Jeff? Is it poor, promising, very good already? JO: Very promising. A year ago I would've said I can never do another women's show again. I think for the first show I had a pool of maybe 18 women to put a show together with. And this time ... I'm up to almost 70 women wanting in on this show. That's a very large increase, and that's what I was hoping to achieve with the first show-to bring the women out of the gyms and into the ring. And it's working. It makes me feel really good. The other night I met Adrienna Jenkins, who is Jens Pulver's girlfriend. She's also a very accomplished Jiu-Jitsu practitioner and she's had a fight or two. She said she watches "Revolution" all the time. It makes me feel good that people are inspired to train and to want to fight. FCF: What are some of the hurdles women's MMA is currently facing? JO: There's still always going to be skepticism among new fans-'Oh, it's just a bunch of girls hitting eating each other.' And it's not. That's a big hurdle. As far as people accepting an all-women's show, I don't cater to MMA fans. I often get criticized for criticizing MMA fans and the fact that we're so small. We don't make a difference at all in ticket sales. The majority of the true MMA fans find some way of getting in free anyway. I cater to new fans and casual fans, and if the MMA fans want to see it, they'll come anyway. I want all new fans. I think the women have the capability of bringing more fans into the so-called sport of MMA than the men do. People are going to bash me for saying that, but already I've got mainstream magazines wanting to do articles on a lot of these women and just the show in general. FCF: In April 2002, you promoted the first all-women's show in the U.S. How successful or unsuccessful was HOOKnSHOOT "Revolution"? JO: At the time I had some pretty big sponsors who were sponsoring the men's shows. But when it came down to me having the bright idea to run a women's show, people turned their backs on me. People weren't crazy about it. Financially it wasn't the biggest success because I put a lot of money into extras. It's still the second largest grossing show we've ever done, even though there were a lot less people (in attendance). I raised the ticket prices. ... As far as how the live show went, I lost $3,000. But it was worth it to me. I had to do that all on my own; I put the entire show on credit cards. I took a big gamble and, eventually, it paid off. I don't make a whole lot of money off the DVD, but now I'm not losing money on it. I'll tell you right now, I'm going to lose money on the show coming up ... ... I'm probably going to lose anywhere from $3,000 to $8,000. To me, it's worth it. If something happens and I do get a lot more sponsors and I break even, man, that's just gold to me. ... Evansville is not a big place where you can jack ticket prices up to $100 or whatever. Monte (Cox) said it. He can do a show and draw 800 people, and I'll draw 2,000 people, but because he lives in a populated area, we're going to make the same amount of money even though I may have drawn more people. So if I lose, I lose. If I break even, hey, that's even better. It'd be nice to make something, but the way I plan a show, I'm selling zero tickets and I have all the money up front. It's sad that a lot of these people get into MMA for the wrong reason. They think they're going to get rich. Some of them do pretty well. They run shows; they make money. But for me, I make money to try to run shows. FCF: How has the "Revolution" DVD sold compared to the other men's shows you've done? JO: MMA DVDs in general, unless they're Pride, sales suck. I've seen so many just delusional promoters thinking they're going to sell hundreds and hundreds of DVDs. I have worldwide distribution, and you're lucky if you move a thousand of one title in two years. There's no support. The MMA fans account for maybe 100 sales of a men's show. Again, I'm not pushing my DVDs towards them; I'm pushing towards mainstream. But ("Revolution") sells probably three or four times as fast as the men's shows. FCF: What are the advantages and disadvantages of doing an all-women's show instead of having a mixed card, with women's and men's fights? JO: This (Nov. 6) show will have two or three men's fights, but they're on the undercard and midcard. There really are no disadvantages. ... If I knew there were enough women to do a show every quarter (year), I would do it. Because you only tell them once, and they do it. They're on time. I've never had a problem with the women being on time or not being somewhere when they were supposed to or listening. When you deal with a lot of the male fighters, it's like dealing with a bunch of rabid squirrel monkeys running around backstage. STAY TUNED ... In Part II, Osborne discusses Playboy, Femme Fatale magazine, a possible deal with DIRECTV, and the official lineup.
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