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Interview by Eduardo Alonso Photos Marcelo Alonso Originally printed in the June 2001 issue of FCF 
A black belt since 1989, Fabio Gurgel knows the real meaning of jiu-jitsu. Always respectful and humble, Gurgel has devoted his whole life to the "Arte Suave" [soft/gentle art -- how jiu-jitsu is known in Brazil], and spreads the philosophy and techniques he has learned since he was 13 years of age to the four corners of world, doing seminars and running his jiu-jitsu association, the Alliance.Learning from the likes of Jacaré Cavalcante and Rickson Gracie, it is no wonder that he is not only a great fighter, as well as a great teacher. With hundreds of students in his academy in Sao Paulo, and many more around the globe, Fabio loves to teach and share his experiences with younger fighters. Not many black belts can say that they witnessed and competed against so many generations as Gurgel has, and very few fighters in the world can say that they're 3-time BJJ World champion...something Fabio Gurgel can proudly state. One would think that this is enough to qualify Fabio as one of the greats in jiu-jitsu's history, sure it is, but that's not all. He also fought some epic Vale Tudo battles, in the best Brazilian style, fighting his heart and soul in true wars against the likes of Mark Kerr, who he fought for 30 minutes back in the days that elbows and head butts were still allowed. During his 12-year career as a black belt, Fabio did everything that he could to help his beloved art of jiu-jitsu, but there are always new projects coming, and sometimes it takes a lot more courage to make crucial decisions, than to keep on fighting. In this surprisingly conversation, Gurgel talked to FCF about a number of subjects, being as honest as he always was during all those years, and revealing some plans for the future that I'm sure will surprise a lot of people. Check out this great conversation with 3-time World Champion Fabio Gurgel! Full Contact Fighter: Fábio, it's a pleasure to interview you. Fabio Gurgel: It's my pleasure. FCF: You started in jiu-jitsu at a pretty young age. How did you become interested in martial arts? FG: I lived in Rio De Janeiro at the time, and jiu-jitsu already had a certain name due the Gracie family, but it was very small compared to what it is today in Brazil. In fact I started going to karate, because of the films I saw on TV and such, and karate was big at the time. I started karate training looking for a form of self-defense, to know how to fight. I trained karate for some months, but I didn't adapt. At the same time my sister was dating a youngster who practiced jiu-jitsu, Heleno de Freitas, who was one of the top guys at the Carlinhos' academy at the time. He became a great friend of mine and he took me to train jiu-jitsu. I started there when I was 13 years old, and by the time I was 15, I already knew it was going to be my profession. FCF: Do you still have memories from the early days of training? How was it to start in jiu-jitsu in a much more romantic time and with so many great fighters training together? Didn't you begin training under Jacaré Cavalcante? FG: In fact my first master was not Jacaré. At the time that I started to train jiu-jitsu, I trained in a very small academy, at "Posto 6" in Copacabana, with professor Toninho. He was an older guy, and it was really the extreme of the romantic way of practicing jiu-jitsu. We did self-defense in the beginning of the classes, and also I really had very good basics during the 6 months that I trained with him. His academy closed, and he went to teach in another place; he moved far away from where I lived. Then, on the recommendation of Heleno, I went to train with Jacaré. When I arrived at Jacaré's, I found out that Toninho by coincidence had also been Jacaré's first professor, many years ago, at Carlson's academy, when Jacaré first started to train. Later, Jacaré went to train with Rolls [Gracie], but his beginning was at Carlson's academy. It was when I switched to Jacaré's that I really started to take jiu-jitsu more seriously, to get involved in competitions, and to really know the people who made jiu-jitsu of that time. Jacaré was my master all of my life, it was him that promoted me through all of the belts, and he is still my master. I think that later since we created Alliance, he continues to be the master of everybody. And I really miss that time a lot, I miss the romantic side of training, because even though a rivalry between all the academies existed, it was a much more healthy rivalry. The commercial part of it did not even exist, it was a really romantic thing. And 90% of the people who practiced jiu-jitsu back then, they went on to have their own businesses and jobs...everybody became great friends. I find that my generation was the first that really had a condition of "living" jiu-jitsu; at that time there were few academies. I really miss those days a lot. FCF: Do you believe that nowadays some academies are not respecting the traditional way of teaching jiu-jitsu, or is it just that the natural evolution of the sport has changed the way of training? 
FG: I think that both things are true. I believe that a natural change exists, an evolution of the sport. In the old days when I started in jiu-jitsu, the classes were around 2 or 3 times per week. Nobody trained all day. I started to train all day when I started to compete, and only a few people did this. I believe that the evolution of the sport exists, nowadays if you do not train specifically for the rules of the competition, you won't win. On the other hand, I find that an academy that teaches jiu-jitsu cannot run away from the philosophy of the art. You cannot teach only the competition side of jiu-jitsu, you have to try to balance things. In my academy for example, I have separate classes, for white belts and for the more advanced students, so that in the white belt classes, since they do not have to concern themselves with competing at the moment, I can give them a strong foundation in the basics, teach some self-defense, and make sure that they have a common knowledge of what jiu-jitsu is. Later, time becomes very short, and it is hard to reconcile the competition side of jiu-jitsu with the romanticism of the old days. [It's difficult] to have time to teach self-defense and have another sort of relationship with the student, that's really important. I find that the academy that has success today is that one that balances the two things. FCF: You fought in some closed-door matches, and challenges at the academy in your teenage years. Were there a lot of rivalries between jiu-jitsu and other martial arts back in those days? FG: In fact, what happened in the old days was that jiu-jitsu did not have the exposure that it has today, so the people had curiosity. People talked about jiu-jitsu and such, but it was common to see people come to the academy without any notion, and wanting to train. Then people of karate, Tae kwon do, boxing, etc., always came to the academy. In fact they weren't real fights, it wasn't NHB...they were tests to make people start to believe more in jiu-jitsu. Jacaré would say: "You fight Tae kwon do, so you can kick and punch and stuff, do what you want, but all he has to do is grab you and take you down, and dominate you." People did not know anything of jiu-jitsu; back then, it was really jiu-jitsu against the other martial art, to prove the supremacy of jiu-jitsu in relation to the other martial arts, without the intention of hurting anybody. We obviously had to defend and protect ourselves, so that generated some obvious adrenaline, as if it was a real fight. What was cool was that it was everything done for the name of jiu-jitsu was a certainly romantic thing, striviing for the growth of the art. FCF: You got your black belt in 1989, from master Jacaré. Does the responsibility of a jiu-jitsu fighter increase a lot after he becomes a black belt? FG: I believe that there are two stages that we can separate very clearly. First is your formation as fighter, athlete, student, until you become a black belt, when you go through a lot of tests. Then the other stage is when you get the black belt. You're fooling yourself if you think that when you get to black belt, you think, "Well! I did it!" I believe you start a new stage; I feel that my career started when I got the black belt. And I don't think it increases the responsibility, it's a win in fact. The responsibility begins with the results you start to achieve, and it begins to put some weight on your back, and then you feel the responsibility to show others your work. You shouldn't feel this way. I believe this is something that you must deal with inside your own head, so you can fight without this weight on your back. When I received my black belt, I didn't feel any extra weight on my back, I was really ready, despite being young, but I already had a good experience in jiu-jitsu, and I had my head in place. So there was no pressure, there was a big incentive of trying to become even better, and to represent well the name of my academy, and to prove that Jacaré was able to give a black belt ready to fight well against anyone. I was his first black belt, so I had the huge pleasure of showing everybody the work that he did over the years. FCF: From all of your jiu-jitsu tournaments in the beginning of your career, which is the one that you remember the most? FG: I fought in a lot of competitions. I think that I remember them all, with flashes and memories, most of them pleasant and others not. But I can't separate one competition from another, because I find that a medal won is always a medal won. Obviously, if I have to put my titles in terms of importance, the 3 world titles are very important, but some championships from long ago meant a lot to me, because of the moment that I was living at the time, they were very important for me to have won, and thus I keep all the medals with great affection. FCF: After being very successful and already established in Rio, you decided to move to Sao Paulo and open an academy. What motivated you to make this move? FG: I think that what motivates me through my whole life is the new challenges. I always had my head focused on work, because of my family, because of my parents, and even Jacaré set a very nice example. I graduated too young, at 19 years old, and I started to teach classes a while before that. I had 100 students when I was 20. I was at a good point in my career, starting as a black belt, motivated, and everything was new. At 21 years old, I fought NHB, and that had a very big impact, an impact that I feel no other NHB event ever had in Brazil. The Jiu-Jitsu Vs. Luta Livre Challenge; had a very big exposure; it was an event that we were very successful in. Right after this event, I became Jacaré's partner at the Master academy, and we had lots of students there, in a great place in Ipanema. That academy got established very fast, we really didn't have anywhere to go from there. I had always come to Sao Paulo, and I always liked the city...I believe that Sao Paulo always offered better working conditions, no matter what area you worked in. I had a comfortable condition in Rio, I left that there with Jacaré taking care of it without any trouble, and I came to Sao Paulo to start something new. Things went well, with some difficulties in the beginning, but I felt safe because of my condition in Rio, and that provided me the energy I needed to continue and overcome the initial difficulties. And after everything got worked out here, I decided it was better to stay here. FCF: After some years, and being one of the pioneers in this change, how do you analyze the evolution of the jiu-jitsu from Sao Paulo over the years? FG: I believe that Sao Paulo's jiu-jitsu has grown a lot; I guess it's probably the second center of jiu-jitsu in Brazil. I believe there was an evolution, and everybody that contributed to that process have their own merits, I'm just part of this group, I don't have any bigger importance than anybody. Marcelo brought jiu-jitsu here, I came and helped, the Gracie Academy came, and Godói and Macaco are here doing a good job. But I think that Sao Paulo's jiu-jitsu today is going through something that Rio's jiu-jitsu went through in the past...a lack of union, with completely different ideas that hinder the evolution of the sport. People think a lot about themselves, and keep looking to the others' business, I think that people should look at the sport as a whole, and give a contribution so the sport can grow. I believe it is shortsighted, but this is a natural process, and jiu-jitsu is always bigger than this, so I believe there'll come a new generation, with a better conception, and I think that Sao Paulo's jiu-jitsu has everything to be the strongest jiu-jitsu in Brazil. FCF: What do you believe that Sao Paulo's jiu-jitsu still lacks in relation to the jiu-jitsu practiced in Rio? FG: I believe it's mostly time. I think that Rio's jiu-jitsu has much more time, and obviously there are many more quality people involved in Rio's jiu-jitsu than in Sao Paulo's JJ. But this will change with time, Sao Paulo today already has a reasonable number of black belts to do some work, but anyway I think that Sao Paulo's jiu-jitsu got to stop splitting and work as a whole. I believe that this will continue to be lacking as long as we don't have a federation run by one person that works exclusively for the growth of the sport. The technical level is directly attached to the level of organization. If you don't have organization, your technical level will drop. Rio's level is in fact dropping. Nowadays you see a blue belt division at the World's with very few athletes from Rio winning, so you don't see Rio dominating as before. In fact you have places that are organized, with less names and talents, but where the organization will compensate for that. So I think that if Sao Paulo gets organized, and the people get united for a common objective, Sao Paulo's jiu-jitsu will quickly get to Rio's level. FCF: You achieved a lot of success in the jiu-jitsu tournaments, winning the World's 3 times. Which of your 3 World titles do you consider the most important? FG: It's tough to say. I guess this last one from 2000 was special, even because in the previous two, winning was [expected]...I would enter the division as a favorite, and I would confirm it. I believe that 1997 was the year that I was better prepared, and I got to the final of my division and the absolute. I lost on a detail, because of an opinion from the referee, but if I had won the absolute, I would have been the only guy that won both absolute and the division in the World's so far. So something that seems not important, but years later to hear from a referee that he didn't give me the decision because I already had won my division...I think it was something childish, to hear this type of thing got me really sad. But I was very well prepared. 1998 and 1999, the years that I lost, I had a problem in 1998, an injury problem. In 1999 I also didn't do a good tournament...and in 2000, since I hadn't won in the two previous years, I fought out of the spotlight. I didn't fight as the division's favorite, also because there were other kids with great chances, like Arona, Comprido, and Murilo, who was the last world champion. So I did a more tranquil tournament, and fought only to myself. It was a win that had a very special taste for me, it was a return to the highest place on the podium, it was nice. FCF: Jiu-jitsu has changed a lot over the course of the years, and you're one of the few fighters that have achieved success in different periods of time. What do you think about sport jiu-jitsu practiced today? And what's the future of jiu-jitsu in your opinion? FG: I feel very proud to have been part of many generations. I got my black belt and there was a group, this group came out and there came another group, this group also came out and there's already another group. I think that I'm one of the few guys that keep fighting, besides me there's Royler, who is older and keeps on fighting too, but the rest of the guys, when they fight, don't do it often. I think that the big names of the sport help the sport to grow a lot. I think it's important to have this change, so I don't see any problem in fighting kids that got to black belt now...to lose, to win, this is all part of the sport. I believe that sport jiu-jitsu evolves every year, new techniques are implemented, rules are adapted, I think that everybody tries to do the best for jiu-jitsu, it's really the evolution of the sport. The competition's pace is very different now; the strength applied in ten minutes is a lot different. I believe it has evolved, and it's going to evolve a lot more. The future of sport jiu-jitsu is to become a truly pro sport, without it, jiu-jitsu tends to die...everybody will get to a certain level and quit. When it becomes really a pro sport, jiu-jitsu will grow a lot for sure. FCF: At the year's Pan-Ams you tapped out for the first time in your career, during your match against Fernando "Margarida". How was it to deal with a new situation in your career, and what did you learn from that experience? FG: I guess I lived this in other ways, obviously when it happens to you it's a little different, it's really a taste that I hadn't felt before. But I understand that this is something that happens to everybody, it's something that is part of our sport, if you don't accept it you can't compete. There's a quote that Jacaré always put up on the academy's wall, which is something that I truly believe as my philosophy: "A tear for a defeat is worth a lot more than the shame for not fighting." I think it is very easy for people to hide behind a name and not take any risks. For 12 years as a black belt I always was in the same division, at the same weight class in all the tournaments. I'm not worried with who is coming, if a new guy is coming, if an old guy is coming, I'll do my part. If I succeed, fine; if I fail, it's part of the game, so I face it as a natural thing. I think he's having his moment, he is really an athlete that stood out in an unusual way, he's had some tricky roads to get to the level that he's reached, it's something that he believed in and worked for because of his natural talent. I believe that not having a team where you came up through the ranks is something very complicated, because in the future you will end up alone. I would never trade this condition, but he achieved a good result, at least in the technical part. And he's taking advantage of it now. This situation that he is living now, I lived 10 years ago. I understand this euphoria perfectly, all the things that he says, sometimes very unfortunate, I understand, I don't take it as something personal by any means, I believe it's part of the sport. FCF: Margarida is one of the younger fighters on the jiu-jitsu scene, and he surprised some very experienced fighters. After facing him, how do you analyze Margarida as a fighter, and do you intend to face him again? 
FG: Look, this is one of the things I learned as well, this thing of putting someone in your head as an objective is something very complicated. I don't have this pretension, this urgency to fight him again. If I have the opportunity to fight him, it'll be great. The World's are coming, it's a personal challenge, it ends up becoming a challenge to try to overcome someone that did overcome you. But I don't have this revenge thing, of having to win. My career is very well placed, I have a very good condition on the JJ scene, and I don't have to prove anything to anybody. He has a very mobile jiu-jitsu, and very pretty, he's a guy that likes to fight on offense, a very aggressive jiu-jitsu, looking for the fight all the time, and this is commendable, especially because you don't see this all the time. Nowadays people fight in a very tactical way; because what counts is the medal in the end. He manages to reconcile the two things, being aggressive and competitive at the same time. But on the other hand I don't see this phenomenon that the people see. If you take a good look at it, we have some students of mine...Jamelão beat him twice, Comprido beat him twice; there is no phenomenon. I think he has had very good media exposure, which I think was not well used. I don't believe in phenomena inside jiu-jitsu, and I never did. I believe in people that train, and have a natural talent. He has and he trains. If I had to point to the great competitor of jiu-jitsu right now, I would pick Comprido without a doubt, he's a guy that has two World titles, beat Margarida twice, finished Nino. I guess he would be the phenomenon today, despite not believing in this name.FCF: After your world title in 2000, do you intend to defend your title this year? FG: This will probably be my last World's. We are starting our training now, it's almost three months of training, and I'll probably stop competing with a gi after this year World's. FCF: The Abu Dhabi submission championship still holds some of the best Grapplers of the world. Do you think about fighting there again in the future? And what are the biggest differences between fighting with and without the gi? FG: Talking about the difference, I think that in fact the techniques changes a bit, you need a more specific training, in the sense of training for the takedowns, where most of the things will happen. I believe that there's this basic difference, but the fighter's attitude is the same, it's grappling anyway, so I don't see lots of difference in this aspect. I believe it's a great tourney, but has been declining. They didn't define a coherent participation criterion, and I think this hinders any sort of event. An event that doesn't have a scoreboard loses a bit of credibility. I think it loses a bit of its credibility for not having a clear qualifying. I think that if you want to participate, everybody has to go through a qualifying or have anything to qualify himself to it. Whatever the criterion is, but there must be some criteria. There are things that aren't very coherent, like someone like Comprido not being at the Abu Dhabi tournament? But I don't discard my participation in the future; I think it's an interesting tournament, with great fighters competing, and a good exposure. This year I tried to participate, but I wasn't invited. So there are criteria that aren't well explained. But I would be happy to fight there, I wouldn't have a problem. FCF: Your NHB debut was at the Jiu-Jitsu Vs. Luta Livre challenge, in Rio de Janeiro. How was it dealing with the tension of your debut? Do you still remember that fight?  FG: I keep some great memories, I think it was one of the bigger experiences that I had as a fighter in my life. People fought for jiu-jitsu, there wasn't Fábio, or Murilo, or Wallid; it was jiu-jitsu against Luta Livre. It was for sure the most united days of the jiu-jitsu family. There was a big responsibility, but on the other hand there was a self-trust and very well done training. We were absolutely sure that it was going to be a success, because of the training and the sacrifices that we did during the course of the training. I made some great friendships back in those days that I still keep till today, like Murilo, Zé Mario, Libório, the guys that trained with us in those days. I believe it was a very important fact in my career. Unfortunately things didn't go as they should from there on, NHB should've become pro at that time, but unfortunately it didn't. But it was a very important fight in my career.FCF: After a long period of time away from NHB competition, you came back to fight at the UFC. You came to the event very well prepared, but ended up being surprised by Jerry Bohlander in your first fight. Was it tough to overcome that defeat? FG: I think that maybe it was the most difficult of all, 'cause I really did very good training. I had a problem, that in fact wasn't my problem really, cause in fact Rickson couldn't come with me, and I had trained with him, so I was counting on his presence on my corner, but well, it couldn't happen. Anyway, this doesn't really determine anything, but it was something that I was expecting. In fact I did a mistake during the fight. The fight was going like I wanted it to go, only in the moment that I had to define things, I made a mistake, I relaxed, and I lost a great position and got into a situation where I couldn't do a thing, 'cause the guy would hold the fence. The time was running short, and there was a break with an overtime that never happened, the referee said that he would stand us up if the fight was lacking action on the ground, but he never did. So I mean, I got disappointed, not because I lost, but because of the way things happened, that I couldn't show what I know and what I trained. FCF: I remember one interview of yours, where you said that you had never lost a mount position in your career, and exactly when you were dominating the fight against Bohlander, he reversed your mount, and got the fight on a judges' decision. What was in your opinion your biggest mistake in that fight? FG: I was in a situation between passing his guard and mounting, with only my foot trapped and he was dominated. I had just hit him with a strong punch, and he lost some of his strength. I had an easy time taking him down, so I felt him a bit soft, he had just spit his mouthpiece out...he was in a very difficult situation. I believe that he made his last effort there before "dying," you know? And it was a moment that I just really relaxed, I thought, "I'm going to mount here and win." When I was going to mount, and I put my knee on the ground he bridged and reversed me. I was very close to the fence, I could grab it if I wanted, and I kept thinking if I should grab the fence, if I should position myself. And in this moment of distraction was when he bridged, I mean, everything happened for him like it should. FCF: Is it true that you tried to rematch against Bohlander a number of times, but the fight never happened? FG: I didn't try a number of times. Soon after this event I was invited to do the WVC event's superfight against him, and he came to Brazil, we signed the contract, did the advertisement film, the promotional photo, all the fight's promotion, and in the last minute he decided he wouldn't come. Since I was already training to fight, I got myself in the tournament. I could even do the superfight against someone else. But in fact it didn't interest me at that time cause I had no motivation for it, I preferred to fight in a tournament because I had never fought in whole tournament before. FCF: You came back to fight NHB again at the WVC event, at Sao Paulo. You won your first two fights easily, and ended up facing Mark Kerr in the final. In a historic fight, you two fought for 30 minutes. Could you still see something with that eye in the end of the fight? Did you get frustrated for not been able to continue? FG: No, I didn't. In fact my eye really got closed, I couldn't see with my left eye, but this fight didn't give me any sort of frustration despite the loss itself. But I could do the whole tournament, I could fight toe to toe with Mark Kerr for 30 minutes, we both tried the best that we could, and he was better during the 30 minutes. In the contract, what we agreed, if there was a real supremacy of one of the fighters during the 30 minutes, there would be a judges' decision; if there was a draw, we would have overtime, and I'm not crazy enough to think that there wasn't a real supremacy during the fight. We considered the overtime and I was ready to keep fighting, but my doctor told me that he couldn't evaluate my eye, and Batarelli as a referee didn't want the overtime. If there was pressure, it could've happen, but that wasn't what we agreed before the fight, so I don't have any kind of frustration or complaint about that fight. I think it was a great fight, I could get to know myself better, and I could come closer to my limits, if there's one. I think I overcame lots of things during the fight, lots of thoughts, lots of fears. I think it was an important fight for me. 
FG: In fact he went to my house the following day because he had a problem in his hand, because of a punch that he hit "Maestre Hulk" with, it infected his hand, and he needed a doctor as soon as possible here in Sao Paulo. So I recommended a doctor to him, and he went to thank me at my house. He went to show his head all busted, that he lost a tooth, and to see how I was doing. I was very hurt. He said that he didn't know what else he could do to beat me, those things that a true gentleman would say. I think that Kerr is a great athlete, and he already said in his interviews what he had to say about that fight, about what he thinks, what he believes, and I did it too. I don't have a reason to run after anything, to fight Kerr again. If it happened, I would fight, as I would fight with anyone, I don't have this revenge thing. I believe this hinders your focus, your training, everything changes, you put a lot of emotion where you shouldn't. FCF: You have been away from the NHB scene for a while. Do you still intend to fight NHB in the future? Have you received any offers lately? FG: Look, I don't think about doing NHB. I think I did NHB in a time, when I started, for the name of jiu-jitsu. I was still a kid, and there was this thing about jiu-jitsu being represented by its practitioners, there was a big amount of pride to be part of it. After that I fought NHB because of a personal challenge, that was the UFC...and soon after that, at the WVC tournament. After that, NHB became a pro sport. The NHB fighter today is really an athlete of NHB. The thing has come very far from jiu-jitsu now. In order to fight NHB, the guy must train exclusively for NHB nowadays, he has to train boxing, Muay Thai, wrestling, jiu-jitsu, he has to train it all, what gets you away from the gi. I'm a teacher first, I have my academy with my students, and if I choose to fight NHB, I have to forget about that. And commercially speaking, NHB isn't worth it. Today I do the math of how much an NHB fighter makes, and what I make as a jiu-jitsu teacher. The NHB fighter sometimes makes good money out of one fight, but he fights a few times a year, and he does it for a few years. But if I structured my academy, and I have my students, I can do it for my whole life. So I did the math some years ago, and I changed my focus. My focus got back to sport jiu-jitsu and my academy. So fighting NHB nowadays isn't totally out of question, but it has to be something very worthwhile, and I don't believe that NHB can provide it. FCF: You've achieved a lot of success with your academy, seminars, and competitions. What are your next projects? Are there any seminar or tape series planned? FG: We just released our second collection of tapes now, and thank God we just sold out the second edition of it. The academy is going very well, everything is wonderful. I have the project of the professional league, which is a personal challenge for me that I started last year, and that I want to do it again; I really want to make this league happen. We have a big problem with jiu-jitsu's image in the media that we have to overcome, due to a series of incidents here in Brazil. But it's something that I intend to do, it's a priority for the second half of the year, I think this is my main project now. I have been doing seminars all over the world...Venezuela, New York, and Iceland. FCF: Also you have your own brand now, and your own gi... 
FG: In fact this gi thing started because I felt that the gi factories here in Brazil are very small. So, either they don't have the ability, or they don't want to, I don't know, they don't make the proper investment in who really brings the brand up, the fighters...other fighters do this for a very cheap price for them. So, in order for me not to do it very cheaply, I decided to make my own. If I'm going to [represent] someone, I will [represent] my own gi. So we have a brand, we have an idea of working something in this field, but it's still something very small.FCF: Despite having a very tight schedule, a few people know that you work with some social projects, helping poor children... FG: I think that helping people is something that comes from everyone. I believe that everyone must do, and should do this collaboration. I really got to do a very good project, which is "Meninos do Morumbi" [Kids of Morumbi], which is a project where we have a group already formed, with discipline, with a schedule for their activities. It's not that I took a bunch of children and started to teach classes. I'm just one more activity among a lot of others that they do. And we have had great results so far, with more than a 100 children training there. Every time we can we put them in competitions, we have great results, and this improves them in all aspects. They go to a music group, they practice sports, learn how to deal with computers, they have a series of activities, it's a really wonderful project that I'm very proud to be part of. FCF: You had the opportunity to train a number of times with Rickson Gracie. What can you tell about your training experiences with Rickson? Do you believe that the younger generations didn't have the opportunity to know the real Rickson on the mat? FG: Look, I think that Rickson had his days on the mat; I think that he did more for jiu-jitsu than anyone else. He is the great name in our sport, he is the great representative, not only about results, but I'm talking about ethics, morals...the image. I think that all of jiu-jitsu wins having someone like him in the top spot. I had the opportunity to train with him all the time for 10 years, the opportunity to bring him here, we had a very close relationship, and he is a guy that I wish the best for. He is a guy that taught me, taught me another vision of jiu-jitsu. He made me realize that I didn't know a thing in fact, and he had the patience and the will to teach me. I had an opportunity that a few people had, and I'm very grateful to him for it, and I'll always have his name at the highest spot possible in jiu-jitsu, and have a very big consideration for him. People think that I made up some stories to talk about him, and stuff like that. I would have zero interest in doing this! As much as I say that I do well against him the better for me, you know?! This isn't the question; the question is that I tell the truth! Gee, how can he catch you five times during training?? He does! I'm not training to avoid tapping, I'm training to learn, but obviously when I train, I want to win, and people didn't believe it, but it's the plain and pure truth! I don't feel any shame in saying, he has the most complete jiu-jitsu that I ever saw in my life, way ahead, and I mean really way ahead of the others! Do you know what I mean? He understands jiu-jitsu in a different way from everybody else; he's a phenomenon. If there's any, it's him. FCF: Did you have the chance to talk to Rickson after the terrible tragedy that happened in the family? [the death of Rickson's son Rockson] Do you believe he will ever fight again? FG: When I say that he is an example of behavior, he really is. This tragedy that happened, I think that nobody deserves something like that, it shocked everybody. I sent him my message, and I know he got it. I haven't had the opportunity to talk to him yet, but I can imagine what he is feeling. I have contact with friends we have in common, and we know that he is capable of coming back to fight. It even can be something that may motivate him to come back, despite the fact that I think that he doesn't have to come back unless he is willing to do so. But I think he has total condition to fight. I believe he is really what he shows that he is...with all this samurai philosophy, being a spiritualized guy. So I think this [spirituality] is going to help him a lot in this moment. FCF: NHB competitions have been getting tougher and more competitive over the years, with fighters well trained in all aspects of fighting. How do you see the future of Mixed Martial Arts as a sport? Do you still train in boxing or any other type of art these days? FG: I have trained boxing with Claudinho (Claudio Coelho) for a long time, and it's something that I like to do, because he is a special person, and I like to get together with him every time I can. I do boxing to have fun; I don't do boxing nowadays as a complement for my training, because I don't fight NHB anymore. So, I don't have this need to do boxing as part of my training, but I love the sport, I like to train it whenever I can. As for the future of NHB and its competitiveness, I believe this is the natural course of things, things are getting even because people are starting to learn everything, and are starting to play by the rules of the sport much more. Every time, you see more equal fights--and I think this is the future of the sport--I think that the rules tend to still change a bit for the future, so the thing can be more dynamic and commercial. I see an even bigger difficulty for Mixed Martial Arts in Brazil, because if jiu-jitsu can't find sponsors, what about MMA?! It's very difficult, but maybe the thing can have an evolution. FCF: What do you think about the relationship of your friend Roberto Traven and the Ruas Vale Tudo Team? Do you believe that this interchange is good for the sport? FG: I think that talking about NHB, Traven went after some improvement in his techniques, and went after training partners. [If he wanted to stay within jiu-jitsu circles,] he could've gone to the Brazilian Top Team, which is a team more NHB oriented, but it would be tough because they're rivals on the jiu-jitsu mats. So I think he made a choice, I mean, the people over there received him very well, they're very friendly; Pedro Rizzo, Babalu, Leitão, and even Marco Ruas is a very nice person, who has things to teach him, and he has things to teach them also. I think it became a team from Brazil, there isn't this rivalry anymore because the people don't fight each other inside Brazil anymore. You usually avoid the chance of facing a Brazilian in NHB competitions, so I don't see a problem; I think he went where he really should've. FCF: Do you believe that the physical preparation is becoming more important in the final result of a competition over the years? How is your physical preparation? And do you follow any special diet? FG: I've already done a number of diets, and I think the diet has a very important place in every fighter's career, as well as the physical preparation. Nowadays, I know myself, so I can know exactly where I need to get in terms of physical conditioning, how I'm going to reach that point, what type of food intake I need, etc. But I don't follow strict diets anymore, it's something that I did in the past, and that nowadays I know doesn't work. So I eat well, healthy...because my life is healthy, because this is my life choice. So if I want to eat some candy, I'll eat some candy, I don't have any problem. I think that this balance is very important, and unfortunately you can only reach this balance when you're a bit older. And for the physical training, we do a very nice workout with Eugenio, who is from Cuba and was wrestling champion a couple of times. In the old days we went to fight, and we thought, "Gee, it's 3 fights of 7 minutes each..." Nowadays you go the World's and do 5 fights of 10 minutes each at a strong pace, using huge strength and everybody goes out fresh. Everybody is taking care of the conditioning now. FCF: Do you the Mixed Martial Arts events nowadays? Who are the fighters that you consider the best today? And whom would you like to fight in a future fight? FG: I don't watch it often; I do it when there's a fight that I'm looking forward to. But I think that today there's a big balance in the game. Talking about my weight division, which is up-to-200lbs, there are some great fighters. I think that Vanderlei is really a top guy; I was already saying that Vanderlei is one of the toughest guys in Brazil for a long time, and he is proving it now. He really beat Sakuraba in an undeniable match. I think he's the number one in his weight today. I like Renzo fighting a lot; I think that he's today the biggest name in the family in NHB, apart from some defeats, anyway. But I think he's someone that has a very big fighting spirit, I think he's a guy that will fight anyone, and he doesn't pick opponents. So I believe that Vanderlei is today the number one, the best, and Renzo is the better jiu-jitsu representative in NHB in my opinion, showing the best fighting spirit in terms of NHB. FCF: In your opinion, what do you think contributed to the defeats of some jiu-jitsu fighters in NHB, like Royce against Sakuraba, or Renzo against Henderson? FG: I think that what happened with Renzo against Henderson was a fatality, a detail, a mistake, anyway, something that can happen in a fight, it can happen to anyone. Royce against Sakuraba was a very long fight, where you have to take something into consideration, like physical condition, fighting strategy, and maybe Royce failed in that, and that's why he lost. I don't think that Sakuraba is more complete; I don't think he's better. I think that Sakuraba is a great fighter, very tactical, and very competitive with those rules. So that was his advantage over Royce, and I think that maybe Royce failed in that point, and lost because of it. I think that nowadays, the jiu-jitsu fighters must understand that there isn't this thing that jiu-jitsu is superior to the other arts anymore, cause everybody does jiu-jitsu! Sakuraba does jiu-jitsu all the time, he trades standing, does some kicks and stuff, but he basically does jiu-jitsu, he beats guys on the ground using pure jiu-jitsu techniques. It's like Hélio Gracie said, "I want to see Sakuraba win without using jiu-jitsu." [Laughs] So the text starts to change, but this is the true indeed. Everybody does jiu-jitsu now. Mark Kerr just beat Zé Mario in a competition [Abu Dhabi Submission Wrestling Championships] that is almost jiu-jitsu, so they fight jiu-jitsu, they train with the gi, so this is already conquered, jiu-jitsu is already a world sport, everybody does it, so the people must open their minds and do the best they can personally. FCF: A lot of people started to question Royce's technique after his losses to Wallid, and Sakuraba. What do you think about those comments? FG: I think that Royce is one of the guys that has more merits in NHB. Everybody says "Oh well, but those were other days", but it was other days for everybody! He was in other days too. If he was ahead of the others at that time, it's his merit. Maybe if they had put another fighter there at that time, he wouldn't have won all the fights he did. Even Shamrock was a guy that already trained ground fighting back then, and Royce beat him. I think that Royce has an unquestionable success in NHB. Is he still competitive? Maybe not anymore like he was back in those days; maybe because he is a guy, like myself for instance, that has an academy...today he has a big business in his hand, he has other things to worry about, he has other priorities in life besides fighting. You have to remember that. When he went to fight Wallid for instance...it's tough for you to go from 10-15 years in the USA, and want to compete in today's jiu-jitsu, it's very difficult. That fight surprised me, I never thought that Wallid had any chance to finish Royce, even because of both guys' technical qualities, but this is what fighting is all about! I think this doesn't take anything away from Royce's accomplishments in any way! I believe that for someone to open his mouth to talk bad about Royce, the guy must be crazy you know?! Especially if it's someone from jiu-jitsu, cause he's a guy that did a lot for the sport, that does a lot for the sport; he's a guy that brings the jiu-jitsu's name up abroad. People like to talk a lot from the outside, people forget things very fast, I think that people must take a better care of what they say, think about the old days a bit more, see the guy's history. I believe that a lot of people that live jiu-jitsu today live it because of Royce, because of what he did in the UFC. Royce brought jiu-jitsu up to the whole world. If he doesn't compete anymore, if he doesn't fight anymore, this doesn't erase what he did in the past. Who was the guy from our generation that fought 1 hour and 45 minutes with somebody to be able to talk? I fought half an hour with Kerr, Murilo fought 45 minutes with Tom Erikson, and buddy, for God's sake, it was a terror! People that have fought long fights know what is like. Okay, it was a guy of his own weight, under different rules, but it doesn't matter! The fight was there. I even heard some people saying, "Gee, he threw in the towel..." I mean, the guy fought for 1 hour and 45 minutes, can't continue to fight, if it's over, it's over! Damn! There's where the sporting part of the thing comes into play...Nobody is there to die...while he was able, he fought. So I believe that Royce has a very important place in jiu-jitsu's history, and the fact that he lost two fights doesn't mean a thing. FCF: Do you believe that Nino Schembri has a good chance in his mixed martial arts debut, in the next Pride? [The interview was conducted before Nino's win over Johil de Oliveira at Pride 14] FG: I think that Nino is one of the greatest jiu-jitsu fighters today, maybe one of the most technical fighters nowadays, with an aggressive style of jiu-jitsu; a very pretty style. In terms of NHB, it is tough to say without seeing it first. There's no doubt that he has the technical abilities to do it, but I don't know how he fights standing up, I don't know how he blocks. But I'm cheering for him to be successful; I think he's a nice kid, a guy that still has a long career ahead of him, still very young. Johil is an experienced NHB fighter, a good fighter, but I think he is nowhere near Nino's technical ability on the ground. So if Nino has a good stand-up, a good clinch, I don't think he will have any problems beating Johil. FCF: Any final message for your fans? 
FG: In fact, like I told you, I'm on my way to my last World's, it's a decision that I have been maturing for a long time now, it's very tough to stay out of the scene that I always liked so much to be part of. I never did it for another reason besides having a great pleasure to be there. But the priorities changes, and today the competitions don't bring me what I need them to bring me anymore. I have a very long career as a black belt, I competed longer than most people did, so I don't feel that I'm retiring before my time, I could stay for two or three more years or so fighting, but I would be stretching one side, and hindering the other, which is my priority now--my academy and my students--to dedicate myself exclusively to them. When you're an athlete you have to split this in half, so I can't have the result that I want for my academy, I can't give my students the support they deserve and compete at the same time. So this is the last time that I will try to do this sacrifice, to compete one more time and try to become a four-time World champion. I hope that I'll be in a good condition to come and do a good tournament. And from then on, obviously I'll keep helping the sport, maybe fighting in the masters for fun, or even in a tournament that I feel like fighting in....but it's tough to picture yourself fighting in a tournament just to participate, having a background of wins or at least fighting for them, so I don't really know what will happen from now on. But this is the moment and this is the first time that I'm commenting on this on an interview. I intend to go to the USA more often now, maybe dedicate more time to my New York academy, and be able to help Jacaré more in Atlanta, to be more present as a teacher and responsible for Alliance, so the team will get even bigger. I think this are my main projects.FCF: Thanks a lot for the interview Fábio! Good luck in your projects! FG: Thank you! It was good! |
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